Sharlene George

Today I'm joined by Sharlene George, founding partner at The Sweet Shop, which has grown from its roots in New Zealand to a global production company. Sharlene started out as a producer, and has built an incredible career, shaping stories and supporting directors, and more recently moving into longer form work and branded entertainment. What I love about her work is the focus on storytelling and purpose, from indigenous stories to projects that support sustainability and the next generation. 

So grab a cuppa tea and join me as I chat with Sharlene George!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Today, I'm joined by Charlene George, founding partner at the Sweet Shop, which has grown from its roots in New Zealand into a global production company. And more recently, moving into longer-form work and branded entertainment. What I love about her work is the focus on storytelling and purpose. From indigenous stories to projects that support sustainability and the next generation. So grab a cup of tea and join me as I chat with Charlene George. Does that sound good? Can you hear me okay? Yeah, yes, absolutely. Fantastic, fantastic. Alright, well, let's kick it off then. So so there's so much to talk about. The Sweet Shop, it's an amazing company, a very much a global company. Um first of all, I'd like to talk about your very special relationship um with your partner, Melanie Bridge, which goes back many, many years. Um so yeah, could you could you just sort of kick off with that?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Um yes, well, Melanie, I mean, the sweet shop is 25 years old this year. So 2001, we started it with there were three of us. There was Melanie Bridge, myself, and Paul Prince. Um we all used to work together at a at a previous production company, which is Silverscreen, which was one of the, it was actually probably the biggest production company in New Zealand in the 1980s. Um and but prior to that, Melanie and I had, I'd produced for Melanie since 1997, 1996, something like that. So we'd worked together at another production company. Um I was actually living in London um when I I found out that she was looking for a producer, and and so I decided to move back from London to New Zealand. Um, and that's when we met and started working together. So yeah, it's been I'd say 28 years now.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Probably longer, yeah. It's nearing 30 years, so quite a long time.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

And still good friends and partners.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yes, part well, we're good, we're business partners, and to be fair, we don't actually work together on a day-to-day basis because we handle very different um sides of the business. But um, yeah, we've been it's it's been a partnership that's been long lasting. And um it's yeah, it's kind of we we sort of tend to work in our own cycles now. It's it's you know, funny, ever since COVID, um, things tend to work quite differently. And because I work in film and television, um, you know, we we work different days. Uh we only work two days in the office because a lot of the time is is spent reading. And so in an office environment, it's much better if if we're at we we do that from home. So so things have changed. You know, we kind of work according to what the projects are that we're working on, rather than everyone in the office, you know, nine to five.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Right, right, absolutely. But you you were part of the the sort of global expansion of of Sweet Shop, were you before used? Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes. And and and I think that's super interesting because you know you started out in New Zealand, but now you've got offices um in a lot of different, you know, hubs. Um and you know, the the UK and and US to name a couple of them. Um do you want to just talk a little bit about that expansion and just culturally how you've managed to sort of maintain the vision of the sweet shop across all of those different markets?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yes. Well well, I guess so we've been we started Auckland or New Zealand in New Zealand was the hub. That was that was the the mothership where we all started. And from there, and that was in 2001 and 2002. We then um we created the office in Sydney, and then um after that was London. So uh from London was the US, so we went to LA, and we have an office in Bangkok and offices in Sydney and Melbourne, and um still in Auckland. So there's six offices altogether. We used to have an office in Shanghai for around three years, but circumstances changed, and so we no longer have an office there. But um, I you know, from the get-go, we've we've always, I guess, had sort of um grand intentions of always being a global company. You know, being from New Zealand, we're on the other side of the world from everywhere. And um, while we were working together at Silverscreen, we had, you know, we were fortunate enough to work on really big international projects. So our our intention was was not to just work on local work. We thought, let's try and export our directors um internationally and globally. Um, and so from there, what happened is we started working overseas, and then it made sense to open in certain hubs that we had a presence in in terms of we did commercials and we worked with clients in those in those spaces. So hence we we decided to open um, I guess, uh production centers and all of these hubs around the world. Um yeah, and it's it's still going strong 25 years later. Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

And are you and Melanie very hands-on with that, or or do you really leave it to the local markets to manage their own um well yeah, so so they uh every market has their own managing director and executive producer.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

So there's management teams in each of the hubs, and that was one lesson that we learned very quickly. You know, there was no point us, we couldn't, even though we could export directors, it was it didn't make sense to export producers. We had to have producers in each market that understood the market, the market conditions. So, so we've always, you know, we've uh a lot of our um MDs and EPs have been with us for you know over 10 years. Um they've been part of the journey, and they very much run all of the businesses. Um Melanie Melanie oversees all of the commercial side of the business, and she also um she also runs the AI division, which is the gardening club, and that's sort of uh predominantly based in the UK. Um, and I I run all of the film and television. So we have quite distinct, you know, we used to be co-CEO, when we're now um, we now have our own uh roles where I am just CEO of film and television, and Melanie is commercials and um AI. Right. So there's a clear vision now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, and we had briefly spoken about that, hadn't we? Because um the gardening club seemed very interesting to me, the fact that a production company had created something like that as an opportunity for you know their directors. Um hopefully I'll get I'll get to chat with Melanie and we can dive into that. Yeah, we can dive into that a little bit deeper. Um and I also saw that you you've been uh you know, you are now a B Corps corporation. Um and that sort of to me seems really interesting um and would love to dive into that also a little bit deeper. But but um is that something that you you can talk about or should we wait a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

That is something that Melanie has actually driven for the company. Um because the company, because we're such a a large company, we've we've had to have quite distinct roles now. Um whereas before we used to sort of go between both, but as the film and television um the entertainment side grew into what it is now, it's now become too big a beast. So we've definitely divided down it. And B Corp is is something that Melanie's been very passionate about and has championed. Um so yeah, I I'll leave Melanie to talk about B Corp and Gardening Club.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Okay, we'll put those aside for now. So yes, let's talk, let's talk about the branded entertainment first. Um I I assume that came before the sort of the long form feature films. Um you tell me.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

I mean, I don't want to assume anything actually, because No, well, I mean, yeah, obviously so branded content has been something which we've been interested in for quite some time. Um we we I mean, probably the first time that we were introduced to it was um actually it's nearly 20 years ago now that Publisher's Mojo in New Zealand, um Worthington, um asked us the sweet shop to make five branded story or branded films, essentially, for Schweppes. And so we produced five short films for Schweps, which was quite um, it was a very uh ambitious project because we had a very small amount of money per project. There were five different directors and five different stories. And so that was our first introduction into creating, I guess going into a space where we were telling a story. We weren't, you know, and creating a world rather than just making commercial. Um, and I guess for for us, you know, the the main thing when making branded content is is ensuring that, you know, obviously the product doesn't take center stage. It is part of the project, but it shouldn't take center stage. And that um what we also discovered is that it's really important that you utilize same of the say uh some of the same storytelling mechanisms that you use from long form. You know, it can't just be a long commercial with no story. Um the story needs to be crafted properly, and you know, you need to include all of those things like the include high stakes and show characters and countering change, and and you have to leave with a satisfying end. It can't, you know, you need to want more, or or at least wanting to find out more. So, and and I think um, you know, that's a very important factor in creating long longer sort of uh branded content stories, really.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah. Um so how are you working with are you working with agencies or are you working with um script writers, TV writers, as opposed to agency creatives? I mean, how how is the whole thing coming together?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So it's it's really it it is, I I will say it's it's actually on an ad hoc basis and it depends on the client. It depends on the agency's relationship with the client and how free they are in terms of um allowing them. You know, we we've we've I mean that was quite a long time ago, to be honest. It it's we we ended up um you know, sometimes we'd we'd look at projects which didn't come through because the um the client felt that they it was you know too far-fetched from what they were doing. And so it tended to be in markets that um uh you know were, I guess, a little bit more flexible, like New Zealand, you know, you could make something, it was easier to do something. And and in the end, we started looking at more long-form projects as a way of doing that. Um, and so that's why we decided to kind of really not just dip our toe into um branded content, but actually go the full hog and try and, you know, I guess try and sort of play in this world where we could connect with our audience in a more meaningful way. Um, you know, we're not we're not sort of bagging commercials, you know, commercials is our the core of our business, but um it was important for us to uh to sort of look at you know other ways of connecting with audiences other than what we were already doing. And and and also for our directors, because you know, our directors have creative aspirations and it was a way of um ensuring that we were keeping on top of things and um and and I guess diversifying into that new area which um which hopefully would help our how our business, which I think it really has, because now that's become just as important as commercials for us, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

And also for you personally, because I I believe that you know, for you personally, you you're very drawn to telling specific stories. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

I mean, I guess for me, working in longer form stories has really given me the ability to um, I guess, hmm, I don't know how to put this, you know, I working in advertising for uh a long time now, you know, you you you face challenges. I think where you're governed by um obviously what the agency um briefs you, you you know, you have a you have a brief from an agency, you have to produce a commercial. In long form, it can be it's not it, it can be led by producers. So what tends to happen is, you know, I've been able to choose the work that I, you know, that we create, which is which has been really um it's been a very uh freeing experience for me, you know, because normally as a producer, you're always there uh uh to support um projects and people, and you're there to maintain timelines and budgets, and and it's a very kind of um well, I guess it's it's it's you know, it's in an important role, but yeah, it's really uh going into in in long form has allowed us, well allowed me to tell Indigenous stories, which is a stories that I would like, I've always wanted to tell and never had the opportunity to. And advertising certainly hasn't been, you know, that place to be able to do that. So it has given me an enormous amount of freedom um to finally realise, you know, I've spent over 30 years um as a filmmaker, and now I'm I'm able to use my skills as a filmmaker, but working on projects that I that that I care very deeply about, which is you know incredibly um empowering.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yes, that must be so rewarding. Do you want to do you want to talk? Can you talk about some of these projects that that you've been working on recently and and what you're particularly proud of?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yes, well, I I mean the thing is is not all of the projects are sort of out out there. I mean, we've we decided to go into um future films in two 2020, you know, which was a pretty bad time with COVID.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Um, but but actually it was a really interesting time because it was time that we could be at our desks at home um writing and also thinking about um stories that we could bring you know we could bring bring to life. And so um we've actually made, and I just checked on my um IMDB profile, I think it's 16 projects in the last six years, which is actually a lot.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah. Um I actually checked out your pro your your IMD as well, and it's yes, I was thinking this is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I know. Well it it's been we've been we've been doing a lot of work and um and and probably the one that's gaining the most um the most sort of uh I guess uh well it's it's out there a lot is is Martima, which is our Mardi Gothic feature horror, which is just released in the in the US. It released in New Zealand in February of this year. Um it's won at 17 film festivals now, I think it has, uh, across um Europe and the US and Canada. So it's it's doing really, really well. And it's and I think what what has sort of made it so successful is that it's a really unique perspective. You know, it's horror films are in terms of filmmaking and genre are are very uh lucrative because lots of people like horror films. I personally have never I that's never been my type of film, but that it's it's a very big market. And and what's happened with this particular film is that it is specifically Maori as well. So it has a very unique perspective, and I think that that is what is attracting um, particularly in the States, it's really it's crazy. Um, you know, that the the people that and and a broad audience, which has been really exciting to see, because we never would have thought that a Maori gothic horror would be something that people would go into.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Gravitate towards, yeah. Yeah, I saw I saw the trailer, it looked fantastic. So is it actually is it out? Can we see it?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Is it on on it's not in the UK yet? So it's released in the US. Okay it's doing a theatrical run and it will likely go to a streamer, but um then it'll next be released in France, and we're waiting for details on on uh when it will release in the UK. Right. So we'll be sure to be sharing those as soon as we know.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

That's fantastic. And is a brand involved with that or is that purely a feature film? It's purely a feature film. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

No, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And so to no brand.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

And so can you talk a little bit about the funding for something like that? Like, so how do you go about getting funding? And and are the budgets in New Zealand a lot less than perhaps we would think about in in the US or the UK?

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Definitely. Um, so that budget for to make a period drama film um was, you know, I think in New Zealand, because and and to be to be perfectly honest, I think it's because I uh we've had such a, you know, we've got a really well-established um film industry and also Sweet Shop. We've been here around for 25 years, we've got really good relationships with crew. So for us to bring a film like this of this scale at a low budget, um, was not as bad as I think it would be for other people. You know, we've got really long-established um relationships that have allowed us to, and that was through commercials, but that's allowed us to kind of bring um a story, an ambitious story like this, and into, you know, with such high production values. Um it's a shame you haven't seen it and it's not out yet, but it it is, you know, originally we were going to shoot it in Yorkshire because the the whole film is set in Yorkshire, but um, we didn't have enough money. We couldn't shoot in the UK. Um so we shot all of it in New Zealand and staged it as Yorkshire. Right. Um and kind of cheated it, essentially. And uh yeah, so it's let's see. I mean, I think someone from Yorkshire will will realise that's not Yorkshire, but um certainly in the in in terms of uh creating a world, we've certainly done our best um in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

That's amazing. And you didn't use any AI tools to help create no AI in that, but we did use Visual Effects CG.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, but no AI.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

No AI. Um you also care a great deal, as well as indigenous stories. You care a great deal about sustainability, don't you? And you've made some some fantastic documentaries, um really helping spread the word and and make the world a better place for the next generation. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah. Um I guess so uh sustainability and storytelling for me are kind of really deeply connected. Um because storytelling is about imagining futures and shaping culture and reflecting who we are and and and actually what we value as well. But um and sustainability for me also asks us to do the same thing, you know, to think beyond the immediate um sort of moment and consider the legacy that we leave for people that come after us. So I I think they're very much, you know, entwined. Um and yeah, I I kind of I think yeah, there's an integrity and inlining uh process with with messages. Um and you know, we're very I'm I'm very fortunate to be able to do that with um longer form storytelling. You know, you you you know, we've got uh a lot of our our slate is um centered around social justice. Um it's centered around um, I guess messages that for me are they're they're personal messages, you know, we we look at underrepresented um uh sort of stories and storytellers and filmmakers and and try and bring their stories out. So um yeah, we're uh I think we're really fortunate to be able to do that with longer force.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

And are you involved with any sort of are you do you nurture young directors? Um are there any programs that you're involved with that that you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Many, many actually. Um and that's been actually funded from um various organizations. I mean, there was a um a a sort of a Pacific it's based for Pacific Island uh emerging uh filmmakers, and we've we've set up programs which has been funded by an Australian organization, Screen Rights Organization, Screen Rights Org, sorry. Um and that was like a uh a program set up to for emerging Pacific Pacific Island filmmakers, is um there's you know, and particularly for me as a Pacific Islander in advertising, we're it there's not very many of us, and there hasn't been many very many of us. So it's been really important for me to try and get involved in ways of of um uplifting them within uh within roles in advertising. So um that accelerator program basically looked at um film young filmmakers and helped them get into the industry and helped them more importantly get a credit. And this is this is actually in in um feature filmmaking rather than commercials. Yeah. Um, because it's very important to have a credit to be able to get the next project. So that's what we worked on is is them working with experienced filmmakers and then coming out of it with a credit instead of just working for free and not actually having anything that they could take with them to the next project. Right. So yeah and that was that was four years ago now so that was quite a while. Yeah. But things happen on a yearly basis and and and and the film industry in in New Zealand, the feature film industry is really um strong in supporting young filmmakers and so we always do it. It's not just me. It's there's many filmmakers across the board who continually um uh look to mentor young filmmakers.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

That's amazing yeah and and the film commission is very active isn't it in New Zealand? Oh absolutely yeah the film commission there's there's lots of organizations script to screen um w women in film and television WIFT they're amazing with uh and you know particularly with obviously with for women but um yeah there's lots of it's a very supportive industry here which is which is we're really lucky yeah no absolutely and this is maybe a question when I chat with Melanie but I mean just in terms of the industry the advertising industry it seems to be shifting so rapidly at the moment um and the role of the director is perhaps changing a little bit um what what advice would you give to your directors just in terms of any new skills or or anything that they need to think about in terms of keeping themselves relevant and busy?

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah it I I I think Melanie is the best person to answer that question but I think I guess from my perspective what I what I can see now compared to what it was like 25 years ago for a director is that um I think directors you know a long long time ago directors were could be really good at their craft but didn't necessarily have to communicate very well or you know it was I I think these days you have to be a sort of like a a brand or a business now you have to be able to do everything. It's um it's you can no longer just be um you know really amazing at one thing you have to be able to you know it it's just everyone knows how to edit everyone knows how to um how to uh sort of I I in some cases shoot themselves as well you have to everyone can tends to do lots of different roles and I think that that is something that's quite different to being a really sort of um fine-tuned into what your craft is and and I think these days you know compared to again the old days is that social media judges um your work as well as the clients as well as you know it it's it's like everything's open to everyone to judge and that yeah you've got to be resilient in that space and I think it you have to be quite a strong person and I I think it's it can be tough for people because there's so many different things and more more things to deal with I think as a director um because you're not just held accountable by you know your producer and your client it just feels like it's all out there it's it's a public sort of um domain now that is it it it can be tough. But but I think I think Melanie is the perfect person to answer that because she is a director.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah no it'll be interesting I'm looking forward to I'm looking forward to that um I I often like to ask my guests a question and let me know if you feel comfortable but is there anything in particular any particular challenge that you faced over the years that you feel um made a difference, made you a stronger person?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Uh for me there's personal reasons and I think we um I think I talked very briefly with you when we first when we first chatted that you know but advertising because I've been in advertising from a very young age and uh for me as a Pacific Island woman it's been very challenging being uh in in the 80s essentially it was a very challenging time um to be a person of colour and be young and be female and and you know and I think that a lot of the um challenges I faced actually made me a lot stronger. And you know so I think you know what came out of what I saw as hardship actually actually really built me it it you know character wise it sort of um it taught me what you know how to deal with really difficult situations. So so I think you know even though things weren't particularly weren't always pleasant it was just I what I did do was actually find a way to deal with it in a which I think is um wouldn't necessarily happen these days which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah um but remarkable yeah and and also may I say I don't know you very well but you sort of you you seem to have a a wonderful empathetic caring side to you. So in stronger instead of it making you you know strong in a harsh way it feels like you still have maintained um a kindness um and a car and and a and a caring side I mean just in terms of the work that you want to do as well um which is admirable.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Thank you thank you it's just I mean I think that's just come with um you know because I I I wasn't always like that you know you go through different stages and you but but what happens is I guess the longer you stay in it and you you're able to see it um retrospectively what seemed at that at the time was was a really bad experience was actually teaching me something. So I guess I look on it as retrospectively in a positive way because I've come out of it stronger.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah it's interesting you say that and a few people that I've spoken to have said the same thing whereby um when they're younger they sort of in a sense do put this barrier around them and then as they get older and perhaps feel that they're growing more into their authentic selves they can sort of become you know more authentic to to who they actually are and that's what you're projecting you know to me right now.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah and and you you you do and you become comfortable with what's happened and decisions you've made. Yes um and there's no point for for me there's no point you can't change it but what you can do is change going forward and you can change by the way that you treat people and um you know it's I I think working in production you know you naturally always put everyone first you know the project the client the team the schedule um but there's a pride um in being you know people depending on you and helping others to succeed um so yeah I I I I can't even remember what the question was now sorry.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I mean we we we've answered it and and um and and what would be wonderful is is to sort of see way what else you want to achieve because you've achieved so much. Is there anything else that you're sort of looking forward to to doing over the next few years?

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Well there there's lots of things but um I mean we we I have a very very ambitious slate of indigenous content you know I have 28 projects which 28 films which that's very impressive yeah but but with and 26 of them are indigenous yes um to Māori Pacific uh yeah um and two of them are not but are beautiful films but um my goal is to help nurture and bring to life uh indigenous stories filmmakers um because I think that for too long we haven't that we haven't had the opportunity. Yeah those stories haven't been told yes exactly yeah that's right and I wish I hadn't started so late in my career to do this but that's why I've got lots to do.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Yes exactly exactly well I hope that maybe Marama have I pronounced it properly I hope that does incredibly well you never know it might pick up an Oscar and then everybody will want to be giving you funding and then yeah exactly who knows who knows who knows well this has been such a pleasure thank you so so much um and I'm looking forward to now also talking to Melanie and learning more about the commercial side of the company because that's super interesting as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yes fantastic I'll I'll I'll I'll put you in touch with her.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Fantastic well thank you so much see you I love my conversation with Charlene George and can't wait to see her latest film Marama when it's in UK cinemas I'm also looking forward to chatting to her partner Melanie Bridge to find out more about the Sweet Shop commercial division and how they are moving with the times. If you enjoyed this episode please share with a friend or write a review as it really helps us grow. Join me next week for another special guest. Until then bye for now