Margo Mars

Today I'm joined by Margo Mars, founder of Lief, a London-based studio built around authentic storytelling and championing diverse voices. Margo has a rare mix of creative instinct and real leadership, and recently she's taken that a step further with the launch of Lief Entertainment Company, exploring how brand-backed work can support premium, auteur-led storytelling. What I love about Margo is how grounded she is, in both the creative and the human side of the industry: how stories are made, who gets to make them, and how you protect creative integrity while building something sustainable. 

So grab a cuppa tea, and join me as I chat with Margo Mars!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Today I'm joined by Margot Mars, founder of Leaf, a London-based studio built around authentic storytelling and championing diverse voices. Margot has a rare mix of creative instinct and real leadership. And recently she's taken that a step further with the launch of Leaf Entertainment Company, exploring how brand-backed work can support premium au terror-led storytelling. What I love about Margot is how grand she is in both the creative and the human side of the industry. How stories are made, who gets to make them, and how you protect creative integrity while building something sustainable. So grab a cup of tea and join me as I chat with Margot Mars. Margot, thank you so much for joining me today. And I see that you've got the cat, the leaf, behind you. It's beautiful, actually, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Look at that. And you know the leaf logo is a flying lioness. So when I saw uh this little spirited animal in a uh art gallery in Hackney Wick, I just you went for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I need to have this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yes. Well, Margot, for those that haven't haven't met you, um you are you are the owner of Leaf Studios, um, and also you've you've started a new company, I believe, um Leaf Entertainment. So we're going to talk about both of those today. Um and um and you also you actually first came on my radar when you did a TED talk. So I'd love to talk a little bit about that. Um but first of all, um, you know, you've worked with so many amazing production companies and you've got such an amazing reputation um as an executive producer. But um tell us why, you know, I I think it was 2017 you decided you wanted to actually start your own company, Content Studio. Um and and just yeah, tell us about Leaf, uh the name and and and just your vision for it. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Um, well, why did I decide? I I I worked for great companies. I worked at RSA, I started my uh uh tenure under CAI uh for 10, 12 years as a producer, and got so that was the still the height of there was so many projects and people and directors to work with. It was fantastic learning ground. And then I took the jump to go freelance and worked with MJZ. Um I was in LA for a while and then uh met Juliet and we uh helped um set up Pretty Bird in London, uh, which I loved, and they obviously are an awesome company doing amazing stuff in diversity and growing talents, and um, I learned a lot from those years doing that, and it also uh showed me like, oh, actually, I can set up a company and like I can do this. It was almost like a little learning ground for that, you know. And then uh, well, at a certain point when I um uh I have directors that are very dear to me, and we have a very strong relationship, and it was just really clear that you know, when you work at other very established fantastic companies, they have their voice, they found their voice, and it works, it works for them. And I had something to say, and I had a voice that I wanted to really test out and be strongly at the forefront. So uh I decided that the only way to do that really is to go on your own and not be, you know, part of them. And at first I really thought like, oh I didn't do it for a while, and I thought, like, oh, you know, is anybody gonna still get give me the big jobs because it's just me, or you know, you have this real uh I read sometimes uh feminine energy of wanting to have already done it before you do it, you know. Uh and uh anyway, I I did it from my kitchen table, uh, found the uh the name Leaf and started it. And then in the next week we got a big pitch from Mother in London, our first, and we won it. Oh, fantastic. And I remember I didn't have my bank account set up yet, like the business account. And I was like, oh, are they just like it was like you know, a seven-figure, it was a big job. And I was like, are they just gonna send me that money without you know and it shows how you know this industry is so built on trust as well. Like, people know, like sometimes you know, you enter in because it's always under such time pressure, and you enter together into this job that shooting in two weeks' time, it was in Chile. This one, so we had to travel the world and do that, and they trust that you're gonna figure that out for them and with them, and they don't actually really care at that point whether you're at Pretty Bird MJ Z or they want you to do it. Yeah, that really that really gave me the you know, the we're still good uh friends uh with the producer at that time, and and it really gave me the kind of like, okay, yeah, I totally did the right, I've got to stop worrying about whether you have the right chops or could and the confidence because my understanding is your company, you know, a lot of the time people, brands, agencies come to you specifically as a company because they know that you're working with auto um directors, um and and almost so I do do you sort of like work as an agent?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

So if they bring a project to you and say, This is what we're doing, can you find us an authentic voice to tell our story? Is that is that sort of much of what you are doing?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

It is like I I've never wanted the company to be the sum of the people we represent. Like we're a brand on our own, so I didn't want that, it was part of the vision. Uh I I have the roster of directors that I believe in, and I truly know through and through, and I know how to sell them and what projects they're good for. But then we also have a tone of voice, and we also add, I think producers are uh as important in that mix of making successful work um and uh and what we choose to do and how we choose to tackle it and what we stand for. So, yeah, a point of um when I really learned that I knew always, and that's why I started Leaf, that I wanted that tone of voice to be really clear, so then people know what to cut, it it builds itself, right? If you do it well and you stay true to your values, which I've always done. I can't help myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um uh and when I really knew about that, that that was working on its own without big marketing or without uh having to be fearful that I needed to do something else as well to get work in, you know, uh, was when a few years ago Wynan and Kennedy Amsterdam were developing the launch of Nike in Saudi Arabia. Oh yes. And um um I had were I had a relationship with uh the first female Saudi uh director and also the first director to shoot an entire film in Saudi Arabia when cinema was still illegal. Uh she's called Haifal Mansoor. Uh I have many like author filmmakers, as all hopefully good like uh producers have in a contact book where you know you don't necessarily need to put them on a roster, they have a multi-talented career, but you know you could do something with them with brands if the right products come on.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Can you talk a little bit about that that in particular because because I was reading that you know it it it was so successful in providing and basically it was it was it was providing opportunities, wasn't it, for girls in Saudi Arabia to introduce them to sport and and give them the confidence that and it and it there were like 37 million hits or something on on social media and and YouTube. So it was an incredibly successful campaign, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

It was and it was it could have gone either way. It were it went through so so why not he called me, even though Haifa is not on my roster and said, Oh, we have this project. Would you know how to reach HIF because Haifa doesn't it at the time didn't have social media and stuff like that, and it was like, would you know so that gave me like insight that they have this project that needs a Saudi director, not calling someone in Saudi Arabia, they're calling me, which is like then you know, that's quite uh and and they were right too, because actually I do do know Haifa and I had worked with her before. Uh so I called her, she was obviously thrilled, but also had not done advertising before, so you have to kind of accommodate the process both ways.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna ask you a little bit about that, that Margot, because you know, with some of these directors, um, they're perhaps not used to working with brands, um, and it puts a lot of r responsibility, doesn't it, on your shoulders to make the job go smoothly, um, but also to protect the the director and the protect and and the creative and the brand. And the and the brand, yeah, very important because obviously they're paying for it. You know, how how how do you navigate that? And um, you know, is it always successful? Are there ish times when sometimes it's it's been problematic?

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Uh I mean uh there are uh in all types of commercial productions are examples where it's gone problematic for one reason or another, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So yes, I should know that better than any person that somehow crawled out the other side.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

But uh I think my taste and curation goes towards uh what I you know are alter filmmakers who operate within an ecosystem of having many stakeholders to get their work made. They're not the big commercial behemoths that you know uh well they are used to having stakeholders within studios, within uh sales companies, within soft funding grants, uh writers' labs, film festivals. It's at the heart of what they do is collaboration. It's just what you have to make sure that they are okay with is the biggest thing was the pace of working, you know, when you know that, you know, actually the treatment is in three days. No, you can't think about it. You have to actually just go for it, you know, and trust me that or you know, the way it works on sets with the communications with, but those are all things we own, right? We know how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yes, and you can help manage, yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

But it is in front of every call I would do. I would have a 15-minute thing with Haifa in this case, but a director where I go, okay, this is the stakes of the meeting, these are the people in the room, this is what their job is, this is you know, you mentor, and you equally with the agency producer, uh like this treatment is gonna look different at time. I I pitched a Super Bowl job with um Haifa where we did a director's intent, like a statement, director's statement, like you do on films, and we did a video. We recorded a video where she talked about all her and why does the deck need to be 80 pages like whatever gets your vision across. So so equally I talk to the agency and we see if that can work with that client, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, because sometimes it's not going to be a good match, is it? Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Maybe, yeah, and maybe where I'd go south is when that work isn't being done, like that checking and that making sure that everyone, you know, is aware we're picking this director for this talent, and this is what they need to do their work, and this is what we need, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah, out of interest, did so, for instance on that project, did you were you pitching against other production companies? Was it it was a triple bid situation, was it?

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Oh, absolutely. I've not had well, I've had the privilege of not having that uh on entertainment projects, but not on advertising. That's fine. Uh well uh sometimes when the timeline is really crazy, or you know, you you push for that. But um on this one, well, I think that was my biggest, and what also was my TED talk about I actually mentioned the TED talk came before the Nike project, and I mentioned uh them uh specifically for uh uh this reason. The the uh so when they reached out and they said, Hi Fan, they said we're launching Nike, but it was not just Nike in Saudi Arabia, but it was about the celebrating the fact that women could now uh uh do sports. So before that, it's insane to think about, right? Sports being illegal. Yeah, Hafa grew up, she couldn't ride a bicycle, she couldn't run. You know, women are were being arrested for doing yoga videos on their Instagram, they would post them without seeing their face, so you just see the body. I mean, it's you know, um, so so that's the culture, right? And it's deep understanding of that. And Nike says, Well, we're gonna launch our first stores and we're gonna celebrate that women can now do sports, and they do, they are have amazing football teams like across all, yeah, but only just so meaning that most girls their level is very different because they didn't grow up with it, and most that have the higher levels would live overseas, so they will have moved to America to train, and so it's a very interesting, you know, time culturally, anyway. And so the ad is uh girls in school uh realizing that they can perform sports and and and then Nike you can do it too, or you know, the uh slogan, yeah. And and it's wonderful. And the first thing I said without even speaking to Haiva was like, well, we have to do that for real. We have to find Saudi girls, and even if they're a bit not so good at playing, kicking the ball, that's the point, right? And just see them do it. Um, and they were like, you know, uh have to shoot in Egypt or Jordan or Dubai, like from experience, they've always gone around shooting in Saudi Arabia, casting is a nightmare at the time, but also because it's just so hard. And it's like, no, if I do it, I only do it for real. Like, we're not that that's our pitch. And so then brought on Haifa. And then I I did have the conversations, I understood it had to be a triple pitch, but I was also like, I mean, it was ours to lose. Like, how how is it possible that you would shoot in Saudi Arabia with Saudi girls that don't speak English? Yes, exactly. That experience, and you have a world-famous, extremely experienced female Saudi director. Why would you pitch these wonderful women from London or Amsterdam or it just well, I mean, you're working with Wyden and you're working with Nike.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

So those are two companies that that I would imagine, you know, it it's a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Um that was uh uh kind of you know, and it's and to me, I it was the most difficult. It was so hard. It was so hard. I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I mean, even for a female producer to to to go there, um is it's probably it's probably easier now, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

But but this was like three years, so much has happened. Yes, yes. Uh yeah, but that's especially the casting, and I'm so proud of it, and that's why it also read so well and did so well, because all the girls shared it, right? So we there's almost a hundred girls in it. So uh that's the YouTube, like all the comments were like, I know this girl, I can't believe she's TV because it's like a not done thing, you know. So it kind of went within the audience, went viral. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so I'm really proud of that because if we had not done it, somebody would have done it in um Egypt or Jordan or Dubai, and or or could be, and not as you know, authentically, and it wouldn't have made those all those girls feel seen like they felt so seen.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah, no, that's a brilliant, brilliant example. Um, I mean Leif, you you talk a little bit about the sort of the unrepresented directors and the diversity and and and um I know you've got a you've got quite a strong relationship with Alma Haral, who you know started Free the Bid. I can't remember if it was just before Leaf um began or I think it was 2006. Yeah, almost simultaneously. Yeah, yeah. So that so that conversation, you know, was happening, wasn't it? And there was a lot of sort of um buzz about it. Um can you talk can you talk a little bit about that and um just the the timing?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, I think it was like 2017 as well, and uh uh you know, Alma's such a powerhouse, and there was the Me Too movement, there was lots going on culturally, and she's always you know championed uh uh the like holding doors open where she could, but she was also still at the start of her career, like she'd not done the big series and films she or commercials she has now. She she just operated within the she saw that advertise, she she cracked it, right? She was like there should at first it was four pitches. So Frida Bid was about letting women into the pitch, uh, which we now know actually hasn't moved the needle. It was it was fantastic, and it moved the needles in visibility and representation on rosters, but actually in work it's almost going backwards now. Yeah, yeah. We should we should talk about that, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's very important. Yeah, uh, and well, but at that time there was that real everybody wanted to be a part of it. There was a momentum, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And production companies wanted women, and but but in a it not in the same way that you've been doing it.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

It was in a at the first, no, we we because then Leaf at one point uh just after we launched with five directors. Elma was a founding director, so we launched with five directors, also Emil uh uh uh from diverse backgrounds. So it's not I'm not about it's funny, isn't it? But that like the strong voices tend to be people from underrepresented because they have stakes, right? They um they have some really something to say, point of view. But um we launched a file, and then at one point I had seven a roster of 17, 16 women, one man. Right with my champion. Uh very much.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Is he is he still with you?

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Uh no, he's not actually. That's uh you know that happens. Um but it was always very fun. We had like a lot of fun talking about that, but that that wasn't like when we would compare rosters, and still like that would really wasn't done, and and not for the reason of just trying to get publicity, right? We truly meant it, yeah. But it was a time I remember so what was funny is she she called I and Epoch Films in the US, so we were Elmas people, and she called me and she said, like, Mark, she had this unlimited energy, and she said, Margo, we're gonna do fourth bid. So every company that signs up has to include one besides the three bidding, one woman. And we were like, Wow, you know, that was already wow, right? Like crazy. And then she had a few calls where she would call send an email to all the and she didn't care, like all the people just googling their names and going like the CEOs, and they're like, You have to do this. Yeah, and and then she called me the next day and she said, Margot, we're changing it. It's going to be one of three bidders. Like, she like scrapped the idea that we should be the fourth. Like, why are we a walk? Why is it?

SPEAKER_00 20:54

No, that's incredible, and it's incredible how many agencies and clients took that took that on board. And so so it did for a while change things. Uh I mean, having chatted to a few um female directors, I mean, I think what quite a few of them say that it felt token. You know, it felt like almost the agency, the creators were being told you've got to include a woman.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

So it was it was a very important time.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

But then having said that, I feel as a sort of an agency producer who's always pioneered, you know, good female talent, I feel like, you know, there are so many good female directors now. Whereas maybe eight years ago there just weren't as many because they weren't being given the work. Or, you know, maybe they were in TV, but but I do feel there are some really, really good female directors who stand. Because of that change, yeah. Absolutely. But still. Still it's a problem, isn't it? It it's absolut it's going backwards. Yeah, I feel it's going backwards, particularly in the States.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Um Yeah. We we have people running departments or the gatekeepers of who gets to do the advertising, you know, the the uh the creative directors that who are so stretched for time, they don't have time to work with people they don't know. It's as simple as that. Like to discover them, to build new relationships. They might get one film job a year, the rest is all I know. I think or whatever. So then they're like, I'm not doing hell, I'm not doing that. There's no middle anymore, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:40

So how do you mean I think also the stakes are so high now that you know you've got you've got you know, it's sort of like, do we want to take the risk? And and the risk taking is sort of um that's what's disappeared. I that is yeah because I mean Kim Kim Gearig, for instance, you know, is probably one of the most sought-after directors in the world.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Um but that to me also isn't diversity anymore, right? Like a new voice is about get getting another few points. So if you get one or two or three or five even female directors doing all the advertising work, that's still one type of voice, right? That's that and they're amazing, absolutely. But that you know, they're just incredibly talented. It's the right job for the right direct, you know, there's all that, but I don't, you know, I think everybody's talked about it ad nauseum, right? I think we have to I don't think it's gonna be solved in this climate anytime soon, and I think we we gotta know our worth and move on. That's what we're doing. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

And and and work with with you talk about auteur brands. So I mean, presumably there's there's a group of agencies and brands that that are very well suited to the way that that you work. Um and you sort of focus in more on them, I guess, than um than you know trying to pitch your directors for absolutely everything. Um yeah, do you do you want I mean do you want to talk about that? Because you're a busy production company, aren't you? So I mean, presumably you are busy working. Um and I know you work across everything, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

It's not just sort of traditional TV spots, you're working on a lot of documentaries and short films, and you've also just yeah, we just uh launched last year we launched uh entertainment company, so it's Leaf Entertainment Company. And that was really recognizing the momentum entertainment has for brands, and how uh how that so truly fits actually what we've been saying all along, and we've been pushing advertising in that direction, and the way we make advertising has always been with an entertainment mindset, which is audience first, uh, and that exponentially brings value for brands if they do that right, because they gain cultural permissions that they just wouldn't if they just push a product. Um, so Leaf Entertainment Company reset that up in uh October and since have just been non-stop. There's so much work in that. Oh, amazing, amazing, yeah. Yeah, it's and and it is a philosophy. Uh there's a momentum in driven in America in the Hollywood system where uh the obviously the streamers are having a big moment of uh hitting each other up. And uh uh budgets have really uh fallen. It's very hard to get things funded. Um, and um the cost of making uh productions have risen a lot. So it's this perfect momentum of going, well, where are we going to get funding? And brands have become the really sweet spot for Hollywood uh to engage in. So branded entertainment has grown a lot in the past year, right? Right. It's nothing new, uh, I'm you know, or constantly reminded by people uh like oh, but it always exists. Our PG invented the soap opera, or you know, and but that's sponsored content, and the difference what we do in the same way we do in advertising as we do in entertainment, is there is a difference from entering a brand into a sponsorship or product placement where the audience still feels that that is what has happened, like it's an economic need rather than bringing a brand in organically and authentically to enable the art to be made. Um it's it's a philosophy uh that really fits leaf. And so we're really working with brands that are auteurs themselves, and they have something to say, they take cultural risks and reap the benefits from that in the same way that we do as a brand.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Right, right. So the messaging is a little bit more subliminal than it would be in sort of a sponsored it's really strong, actually, but it's not product led.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

So it's about spirit, it's about what you stand for as a brand value-wise. We're working on a slate of sci-fi and horror at the moment, and action films with female directors that are very visually strong, and it turns out you know, that is a very uh big market for Gen Z audiences, absolutely, yeah. And visually really excited. So you don't bother that down, you push it even harder. That that that aesthetic, that storytelling, like really powerful stories, and really targeted, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and the it's not about the brand, uh, like it's not IP led that the brand owns an IP like Barbie, or those are different kinds of things. So it's a spirit that they attach themselves to in longevity, you know. Right, right, right. They they were part of this universe. Hyundai just funded a feature, back to feature. This is part funding, right? So they come in as equity partners uh in entertainment, alongside soft funding grants, uh, writers' labs, like institutional funding, right, right. So they are part of the financing package of entertainment brands. Um, and in that way, he Hyundai just backed a film that uh premiered at Sundance and it won the Audience Award. There's actually it's around the car crash, like interesting, interesting, yeah, you know, uh and they are not front and center at all. It's not like a title partnership where it's like, you know, hey presents because it's about a bigger, you know, uh conversation culturally that they can so how does the con I mean, because clients are so used to controlling the messaging, whether it's between you know with an agency partner or whether it's it's direct with brand.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

How you know if a if a brand was listening to something like this, how do you how how do you structure those conversations with brands and and what sort of you know, because the the traditional marketing teams I would imagine that work in advertising would find it quite hard to wrap their head around something like this. So so yeah, for brands out there, can you talk a little bit about the relationship?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, of course. I mean, I think that's also why we do this part and not agencies or like you know, when when media companies or agencies or product sponsorship type agents in Hollywood do these deals, uh, they do it from their understanding and they're marketeer-led. So it's a financial brokering, whereas we're producers, so we are doing it from a cultural standpoint. So the the people not every brand fits it, you know. They've got to be you they've got to, they are either already auteurs, uh, or they uh have the ability to become one, and it's very aspirational, it's very desirable to become. I think every brand would want to, but they're not all capable, and that's okay. So we have a kind of you know, introduction, talking to a brand to see, to stress test that. And and if not, that's okay. We can make content, we go to leave, right? That's why it's two companies. Yeah, you there is a solution for everyone. Uh, you can do, you know, ITV and Marks and Spencer is doing uh advertising-funded programming. It's great, it's all product led and it's fun, and you watch it, and but that's not what we talk about because uh so so um there's that. So, how do we we often don't talk to the mareteers per se? It's more the founders of companies or the cultural, like the partnership, the people that are driving stories, right? Um, smart companies that are ahead already have those departments now, so they no longer, you know, they'll there's a CMO and there's an entertainment or or cultural uh role within a company. So there's that. Uh I mean there's absolutely CMOs out there that that understand it and are excited by it and already doing it and understand the value. So uh yeah, you uh we we have all the backing to be able to tell them like the data behind the lot, it's the longevity, right? So you get they gain a permission to put up their prices or they gain a permission to do certain certain daring things, compounded over years, so it dwarfs the results of an ad campaign. And an understanding of that and a willingness to take that leap that you're not just looking at how many products you'll be selling next month as a result.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Money you're talking about. I've spent, you know, we know the budgets for ads and then the media budgets behind. You can make feature films for that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It's really not we're not talking that big numbers that is within, you know, if you look at Amex, they have a uh marketing media budget of six billion a year. Six billion. I I don't need that much.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

No, no, no, no, absolutely. We're not talking Hollywood prices here with uh Tom Cruise. Yeah, and I and I think you know there's just so many changes in advertising at the moment, and and everybody is talking about AI, but I think even more important than AI is the fact that the audiences are changing and the way that they want to um they want to view content they don't want to be sold to and the next generation and any generation to be honest, they don't want to be sold to in the way that they maybe were in the madmen phase of of advertising. So it's really it is changing dramatically.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

AI is making us very smart. So like we're very quickly, you know what we talk about my TED talk was about is why should the audience care who made an ad, right? Because they just see the ad, like who cares who made it? Like on a on a debt level, we care. Why? Why do we care, right? And and um uh it was about understanding like what it means if it's not if if you're not um if you're sold something that isn't authentic, that isn't true, if somebody's shaping a story that isn't your story, that isn't, you know, they're they're changing the way you think. Yeah. So but we in that time, I did that talk six years ago, right? So there wasn't the AI uh thing yet discussion, but you didn't like did you watch an ad uh and question uh right? Like how it was told, who told it, like making sure you understood that you're being sold to by a voice, right? A voice that and AI is kind of teaching us very quickly now to question everything we see. Yes, yes. Is it real? Is it actually made by real? Is this a real person? Is this a voice? Is this like so? That's interesting because that even puts the bar higher to what is what is real emotion, and and I think brands need to do both, right? Well, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

I was gonna say, do you think that there's a world where they can live side by side? So you've got the AI, which is very clearly AI and it's it's entertaining in that.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Or does a job of pushing the product.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah, or does does that job exactly, in a very sort of obvious way. And then you've got the very authentic storytelling, which feels um in so many respects. I mean, just looking at sort of like um, you know, after this year and the stories, I mean, just wonderful, true, authentic storytelling, which I think that for a while we haven't really had, and it feels like that's really sort of at the forefront at the moment, and and hopefully it will sort of continue that way.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I'm seeing lots of scripts that I'm seeing at the moment are like dystopian, and that's why it's gonna go somewhere else, like with people's mindset. So there's always the kind of you know, what do people uh uh need at this point, and certainly hard for I mean it's funny, there's this graph about like the uh genres, so documentary, romantic comedy, comedy, thriller, action, sci-fi, and and the ones you're describing, the emo that so there is like how challenging is it to watch it? So being a horror or a true crime is really hard to watch, right? Uh, but but that's the thrill of it, right? And then the romantic comedy is really easy to watch, and then the emotional payoff, so that those are the two kind of things uh it's measuring, and then it shows documentary drama and um social impact type films gain the most of both those emotions, like really strong emotion. Like how often we get a marketer asking us, I want to make people laugh and cry, because we know that that drives purchase, right? Purchasing power. So um, so it tends to be that those kind of films are the ones that brands uh uh traditionally want to make or back, like the impactful stories of the refugee who walked across the Sahara Desert.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Which is great that they're if they're uh truly behind that. But now it's an interesting time because we're also finding the power of sci-fi and horror, and that that actually also drives, but you gotta know your audience or which one you want to uh you want to get. Uh so yeah, the films we see that that the films we see in at Bafta, like the I Swear was incredible. Yes, yes, real story, like it's almost a documentary and exactly so well, is and that is one that is challenging. I found it really hard to watch sometimes that you're like, Oh, it's so unfair, like you know, and how could they deal? And then it was also emotionally rewarding, and you did cry in the house or felt really like driven to that. If there would have been a brand that backed that film silently, like in the way that Johnson and Johnson did the documentary about the AIDS wards, um, it that would absolutely gain them such momentum of like understanding their, you know, that that power and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Yeah, no, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. Yeah, absolutely. And I know you do a lot of work with you know um di the disabled and and you know hope dis disability, you know. I was reading about that, which is just yeah, such incredible, meaningful work. Um yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Yes. I love the power we can have, you know, the we all have to put our skills to uh I mean, I couldn't I couldn't live for myself and do all that.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

No, absolutely. But I mean I've you are quite unique, Margot, in the fact that you know you really do have a very strong voice, strong vision. Um and I and I'm just wondering, you know, where did that come from? I mean, have have there been any sort of specific challenges in your life that plus trauma that made you really adamant that that that's what you wanted to do. Or is it just part of your DNA? I mean, some people are just born some people are just born like that, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Caring, but also really uh bossy and and kind of you know so it's this combination and economic like I did business, like I I you know, you also need to make it all work, right? So it's this but I have always you know my friends in school were the ones who got picked on, and that I wanted to, you know, I s uh I saw something I enjoyed hanging out with far more than the popular kids.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

I think if you look at then I've always kind of looked at that, you know, social. I don't know, I I uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Be a voice for the underdog, perhaps. Or being the underdog yourself.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Or being the underdog yourself, yes. That secret power of uh, you know, um yeah, yeah. I always feel that I am in some way, you know, but by choices of not going with the mainstream, not going the easy route, not I c can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

I mean, do you think a company like Leaf would um would thrive in or or even succeed or uh you know in in America, or or do you think that culturally you are a very sort of European because you've you've got offices, haven't you, in London, um, Amsterdam, France? Yeah. You know, particular particularly now with there being so much pushback on DEI.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

How how do you think well we thrive in we have American clients and we do quite a lot of business there, but specifically those that seek out our uniqueness or our you know, or for whatever reason, right? We end up on uh I I uh of course, like if you you're different, people were gonna find you, right? Yeah, community. So that that exists also in America, but I think it wouldn't exist if if if I was born and raised in America and and and had the American maybe culture in my DNA, I wouldn't be me, right? No, no, that's true. That's I tried it. I I I had uh directors, you know, like Alma, but also other directors in the past that are all LA based and they would lure me over, and I lived in LA for a while and not not uh uh like you did for a really long time, because I just could the way I do business, I often got told, yeah, you're not executive enough. Right. I don't know why why do I have to shout? Like, I we live in a world where those that are fearfully like loud and uh kind of you know the culture of overpromising, it's inevitable to me. I underpromise and overperform.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Right, right, and have honest conversations with with people, I imagine.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yeah, yeah. So I could make a lot more money and have a lot easier life had I I don't know easier, by the way, it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Well, you you seem to be thriving, so whatever you're doing, wherever you are, it seems to be the right choice for you. And uh and thank you for giving so many people voices and telling such great stories. And uh, and I hope we meet one day soon. And I appreciate you so much for coming on the the podcast because I think uh everything you say is so so interesting and um forward thinking. Thank you for having me. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye. Margot, thank you so much for the conversation. I loved hearing about how you think about taste, leadership, and the responsibility that comes with backing talent, especially at a time when the industry is shifting so quickly. It's incredibly inspiring to see how you're building not just a company, but a culture around storytelling that genuinely matters. Thank you for joining me on Standing Out and Standing Strong, and I can't wait to see what you and Lee create next. See you next week.