Standing Out, Standing Strong
A podcast celebrating bold voices shaping the future of advertising and beyond!
Standing Out, Standing Strong
Tusk (Kerry Furrh & Olivia Mitchell)
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Today on Standing Out, Standing Strong I'm joined by Kerry Furrh and Olivia Mitchell, the directing duo known as Tusk. They met at USC, call themselves "a two-headed monster," and have built up a bold career across film, commercials and music videos, all with a style that's playful, precise, and unapologetically theirs. Most recently, they returned to Tribeca with their queer love story Ripe, and it's now headed towards becoming a feature. We talk about creative control, visual risk-taking, collaboration, and what it means to fully own your voice.
Join me for a cuppa tea with Tusk!
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Today on Standing Out, Standing Strong, I'm joined by Kerry Farr and Olivia Mitchell, the directing duo known as Tusk. They met at USC, call themselves a two-headed monster, and have built a bold career across film, commercials, and music videos. All with a style that's playful, precise, and unapologetically theirs. Most recently, they returned to Tribeca with a queer love story right, and it's now headed towards becoming a feature. We talk about creative control, visual risk taking, collaboration, and what it means to fully own your voice. Join me for a cup of tea and let's begin. Thank you so much for joining me because I know you've been incredibly busy, and uh we've tried to schedule this a couple of times and and uh you know had to reschedule, so thank you. Of course. Um we wanna we want to talk about the all the the films and all the great work that you've been doing. But first of all, I just for our listeners want to introduce you as Kerry and Olivia and also as Tusk. And I think first of all, can we just talk a little bit about Tusk and and um what the name means, where it came from? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. Well, Tusk was a product of our now retired agent telling us that Kerry and Olivia didn't really have a ring to it, and we needed something shorter and snappier and more memorable. This is when we were trying to get into more short form work. And so we brainstormed, we sat down one day and we're like, okay, let's try out a name, let's do a duo name. And at the time we were kind of like, you know, wanting something a little short, snappy, maybe a little mysterious, gender neutral. And we landed on Tusk because um we went to school, we met at USC, and Tusk was the fight song that the band would always play at games.
SPEAKER_01And they recorded on the Tusk song, the Fleetwood Match.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the original track. Right. It just felt we heard it a lot. It felt right. Hey, so we tried it out. We tried it out, it stuck right away. We started booking all of a sudden. I don't know if it was coincidence, but we're like, okay, I guess we have to stick with Tusk now.
SPEAKER_02It's a brilliant name, it really is. And so so you you met at USC and t tell us about that. How how did you get together? Yeah, it was 16 years ago now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I actually reached out, Olivia was doing music at the time, and I reached out and to see if she wanted a music video. Well, you skipped the first step. Yeah, we we won't we're almost roommates, but we decided we were not.
SPEAKER_03Yep, random roommate boards, you're like a incoming freshman. Yeah, we decided we chatted, but we're like, we're not compatible, which is so funny because obviously, you know.
SPEAKER_01We have become, but then I did a music video for her, and like it did not go well. Like my it was it was uh kind of a disaster. The end result was good, but the shoot was like kind of a disaster. Um, but yeah, then we just like it was really good, except the batteries died. We were like, you know, just trying to do stuff. Literally 17 and 18 years old, and then we just like clicked. Like, I think our style of working was really aligned, and um we just had big crazy ideas, and we'd do them, we'd make like prank videos, and we'd make like music videos, we did a bunch of stuff in college, and we started like writing a TV show about musicians, and Olivia's a musician, and so and that like kind of pulled I think Olivia into the film world more because we like made the short film and it went to Tribeca, and then um she did the music for it, but also like wrote the script, and then we got like an agent and we're represented, and then we sold the show to Freeform and like wrote for is this girl band? Is this yeah, so that was 2016 you did that?
SPEAKER_02Um was it 2016? That's when it came out, so I think we shot 2015, yeah. So that was you actually wrote that at USC. That was one of your first projects.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it was we'd written it for years, but ended up shooting it right after we graduated.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right. Yeah, and and um that was up for an Oscar or or that one was not.
SPEAKER_01Um that one just got us a deal with freeform. We like sold the ship for freeform and then we wrote for freeform for a while and then ended up never getting picked up. But I think like um it did kind of start our you know, professional career.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and a decade later, and then we made our next short, and that was the one I think you're referencing that got a little Oscar heat for a moment, which was insane.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna I want to talk about that because I I saw it yesterday. It's it's a really fantastic short, it really is. Um but but first of all, just establishing sort of like your partnership, like you're in sort of more into music, Olivia and and Kerry. I mean, how how do you sort of um how do you direct? Like what is the process and and what do you both focus on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I mean, we both are pretty uh closely together when it comes to the writing part, and like, you know, we both kind of pass drafts back and forth. And then when it comes to directing, I think our skills are um very different. Um and it also kind of depends on what we're on, but I'm a little bit more technical, like I do a little bit more of like the camera, the scheduling, like the technical problem solving stuff, whereas Olivia's more like performance-based, like especially on commercials like client-facing, like talks with clients a lot and very kind of like producorial as well. Um, but then also like comes in with like aesthetic and color palette and you know, like hair and makeup and clothing and things like that as well. So there's like kind of a crossover, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03And the girly girl and carries the tech broke. Right, right, right. You know, maybe but yeah, and and if there is music, I'll do the music part because yes, I do come from a music background, um, but not every project needs that. But when it does, I I do a little more because um I can kind of get the tracks ready and get the syncs ready for set, be able to direct the act. Or write a song like we have done. We have, we have composed, we've been doing some very silly comedy songs. I hope we do more because boy are they fun.
SPEAKER_02Oh, great, great.
SPEAKER_03Are you doing them in AI or are you writing them in just I write and produce and do it with a team of musicians as it's needed? No AI, not yet. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, we'll talk about that a little later. Yeah. But but so yes, I mean, you do photography, your filmmakers, your writers, even producers. Um, I mean, for instance, the the the shorts, because I know you did um Girl Band, and then you did the the second um short film, uh Ripe, which was shot in in Catalonia, Spain. I'm fascinated to hear about how that came about. Um it's a really beautiful film. You know, I I I you sent it to me and I I watched it yesterday, and and it really it's wonderful. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about how that came about, and um, and then we'll dive into the look and the casting and all of that as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you. Yeah, well, it was I mean, it it's so many things culminated. I mean, it was on a personal level. Carrie and I, we date, we are very much in love with one another on a on the personal side as well as the professional side, and we it took us a while to come out about that, many, many years of kind of lying and hiding. So, Ripe in One Way is our first queer out narrative story. It took many, many years, and we're very proud to be at a point where we're kind of coming out with the film and celebrating that part of ourselves. But also, it was just us wanting to make kind of a dream-like romance, a story in a land far away of two people who connect and have this magnetic pull, a little bit of humor, a little bit of drama. Um, we love soccer, there's some soccer in it. We both growing up, and um, it was just kind of a combination of all of our interests and our kind of vibrant connection and also needing representation. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I mean, it it really like all of that, and then we went on a trip. We were like really burnt out from work and had just done like a crazy like album release cycle with an artist, and like it was just we were so burnt out, and so we went away to like not work, and then we ended up like writing this whole movie because we met a waitress on the coast of Spain who was like 17 years old, and she was just so confident and fiery in her personality just from our few exchanges.
SPEAKER_03And we were this is the character we needed to see when we were like 17 years old, like her sort of like her confidence, her ability to speak what she wanted was so cool, and we were people who'd been lying for most of the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, she was so good, she's hypnotic, she really, really is. I mean hypnotic. I agree with that and she was the waitress in the restaurant where you were staying.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and we inspire never had acted before. We like we wrote a character, we wrote a feature film outline, we went back to America, we couldn't stop thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01Really in the restaurant's followers, we started around. It wasn't like she's gonna be that character, it's like we're inspired by like her persona, and then it was like, okay, maybe she should act. I think she should be it. Yeah, and then we were like, let's kind of like start to like talk with her and see.
SPEAKER_03Also, we're like skipping steps steps because we wrote the feature, and then obviously, like, we don't have money to make a feature, we've never made one, so we're like short film with this girl playing Gloria, this character. Maybe we see if she can audition if she's ever acted. She had never acted, she couldn't really push that well. But we were so excited by her and kept working with her pen paling, meeting once a month, casting other roles, and it just came together and maybe was a bit of a crazy uh move or instinct, but it it worked out so well. I mean, she won Traebecco with the first thing she'd ever acted in. Yeah, it's amazing, amazing.
SPEAKER_02What what about the other girl? Because the chemistry is so important between them, isn't it? So, how did you go about then finding finding her? Traditional casting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we went on backstage and we had submitted to a different project that we were doing, and we were like, I we're not sure if you're quite right for this, but would you be interested in submitting to this other project we have? And then she like she made a tape and it was amazing. She was perfect.
SPEAKER_03She was she was she had a intensity and kind of ferocity about her we really liked and it you know, she had a little bit more traditional training, although she hadn't really been in much, but she had gone to school and and was classically very uh like informed in her process, and so pairing her with somebody like Rita, who had kind of more of a wild card, had never acted before her personality, that was a really cool chemistry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and but how did you find out if it was gonna work? Because I mean Um We did a Zoom call.
SPEAKER_01Um that's all and then I mean I think like we just liked both of them, and I think that we hoped that because they both felt right for the roles that and and they're good actors, or you know, they can embody this role, then they would you know connect together and thank god and it would work on screen. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, fantastic, fantastic casting, and also the visual look of it is is so it stands out, it's so vibrant. And I was just I was reading about some of the techniques that you were using with filters and mirrors. Can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean, we had a really limited budget, like it it I think the the style we uh I think fool people with, like it looks really expensive, but we had no money, and um it was the way we achieved it because it's kind of high key in some ways, and the way we achieved that was with mirrors, like using the sun and shooting towards mirrors and using that as like a giant 10k light that would cost so much money and power, and um and yeah, so we just like we used that a lot, and then the filtration also was like, you know, we had an eighth black promise, or we had a full black promise, which kind of gives it this like ethereal glow. An eighth was not enough for us. A full black promise was like this is like a look, but we didn't we didn't have access to the half, it just wasn't available and we didn't have the money to get it, and so um we decided to just come into the far the full, and I think like we then you know allowed it to sort of be what it was, and I think it ended up working really well because it does give it this kind of ethereal, glowy, soft, ringy feeling and then we changed it in color too and like brought some of the contrast back into it, right?
SPEAKER_02Right. And what about the DP? He's his Pablo, isn't he? Was he a local DP or was he somebody that you knew and you flew over?
SPEAKER_01He was local, yeah. He's he's from the Canary Islands, but he's from Spain. Um the production company that we worked with on the short had just shot a movie with him, and we had seen some of the stills on their website, and he just had like we always look for in DPs, a DP that has like a style that just feels cohesive and original, something that's just like different. And he had this really stark contrasty style that we were like drawn to, and we're like, we asked the production company like who is this guy? Like, you guys worked with him, like can we meet him? And then they sent him the script, and then he immediately like sent us a letter back about how he responded to the script. He's like, I think I'm a Gloria. Um, I'm going through actually a similar experience right now, and we just like immediately bonded with him, and like, oh my god, so much prep.
SPEAKER_03They like books together, like he wrote a thesis about the light and the it's Spanish Impressionist art. I mean, the amount of prep from him and Carrie and all of us it was just like true, true passion for like half a year before.
SPEAKER_02That's amazing, that's amazing. And um, and then it won it, it won short narrative at Tribeca, which is which is incredible. Did you manage to to get some money as part of the prize to help sort of pay back for any department?
SPEAKER_01We did get some money from a different prize at the um Savannah uh film festival. We got some money from winning that. Um, but no, we it I think it just became like a calling card of like, hey, this short one, like come meet us, we're making a feature. Um, was really yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you are actually now making a feature.
SPEAKER_03Um and it's it's slated for this year, or do you think that they're nothing is officially slated, but we are hoping to shoot. We were supposed to shoot last summer and things yeah, yeah, yeah. Now we're kind of back together. We got a cast that we love now. There's a little bit more energy and now, and we're hoping to shoot in the summer. We've been doing a lot of great meetings, but who knows? You know, the truth is it's really, really difficult to finance a film that isn't made a lot. Um queer uh coming of age uh diverse films aren't made a lot for lesbians, and so there's not and a lot of the studios or the the production companies are like, well, you know, we tried a lesbian film once and it didn't work, so we're not sure. And it you know, it's just crazy. You know, this is just a love story, this is just a story.
SPEAKER_02No, and I it would appeal to so many people. Have you tried French money? Because I feel like the French would absolutely love it. Well, seriously, now anyone. I mean, if you look at some some of the, you know, I was looking at um BAFTA, and there's so much great storytelling that that was was highlighted at BAFTA, and you know, a lot of the sort of the the foreign films as well. I would I would think about that, I really would. Because I think you might get money from the Europeans.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know there's there's tax credits in Spain.
SPEAKER_02Um exactly, yeah, like Spain would be would be a fantastic place. I'm sad to hear that that that um you're getting a new Gloria though, because I thought she was. No, we're we kept Gloria. Oh, you kept Gloria, okay. I'm I'm really pleased to hear that because I felt like, yeah, I mean, that was such amazing casting. So yeah, Gloria will see.
SPEAKER_01The story was like written around her, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, good, good. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Um, well, that's fantastic. Well, let's move on to commercials. And uh you know, you've done some really amazing work. You f first actually came onto my radar when you did the NFL film for 72 and Sunny, and um there was quite a lot of buzz at the time about it being an AI film. Um but actually it it it wasn't truly an AI film, was it? There were so many different components to it. But I'd love it if you can just talk a little bit about that experience. Um and also how you how you pitched for it and how you won that you know, won it because it was a very big film and you know you're still relatively new, aren't you? In commercials.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, we were so lucky to do that. You know, the the project came in and we were totally jazzed because oh my gosh, NFL opening season video. Honestly, just coming to women for that in itself was so cool. And then we love the creative, we love the messaging around the piece, which was basically a celebration piece. Like, we all have hope that our team could win this thing, and we are all about it was all messages we could get behind humor, vibrant joy, hope. We were all feeling down in these times, and we were so ambitious too. It was like all these crazy quote, and yes, music and chilities and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we were like, oh, we can tell a color story, all these things, and then part of it was also we want to use AI as part of our VFX technology due to our timeline, due to our scope. And so we were like, okay, let's do it. Let's it, let's, let's try it out, let's see how it goes, let's see how AI can get creative and embrace new technology. I think the toothpaste is out of the tube for like words. And I think that, you know, the reality is whether we like it or not, um, we have to learn and adapt. We've always kind of prided ourselves in in adapting because um, you know, it's it can enable creativity.
SPEAKER_01There were some regulations though that the agency had and that like there were some legal regulations of what we could use and couldn't use. And then also there was we weren't allowed to use a a a full AI human that wasn't um modeled after a person, or that person wasn't like the person had to be paid for basically. And the only a full AI human that we had was a baby, um, which we were like, I think it's more uh ethical to have an AI baby than a real baby. We don't want to put a real like shooting with real babies is kind of like it's hard.
unknownIt's hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't think it's good for them.
SPEAKER_03Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So, but you know, there's obviously mixed opinions about it, but I I think that um we were really excited about the pitch, and we were just like we like, you know, we actually did use AI with music to change voices. We did we did like a kind of temp track of like how it would sound.
SPEAKER_03Um in our pitch, not in the but also like I think one big misconception is like it it was really a traditional live action thing. We shot like a CG shoot, part of it was real, part of it was CG screen shoot, and then we did some traditional CGI and some AI in the workflow, but all the steps of of production were the same. We were working for two months straight on all the logistics. I mean, it was the hardest, biggest, most highly staffed shoot we've ever done. And and then, you know, obviously it's hard with the AI, and there are so many opinions about it right now, and I I value all of them a lot because and you were saying you were trolled a bit by the city.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I think the NFL did also like promote it as like this was made with AI, and I think that like it it it was and it also wasn't. I think people I think people are really misinformed about like what about it is AI. Yeah. Um, and I think that the the first thought you have in your head when you hear that this is made with AI is like we typed something in and got this video out, which is just not true at all. We had like 60, 70 VFX people employed on the job, like you know, it was a massive VFX shoot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Where AI was used in some of the renderings of things. Um, but yeah, it was mostly it was a lot of CGI too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a lot of misinformation about how it was made, but also just listen, there's a lot of fear around AI. I mean, we all feel it, I think. And it it changes on a daily basis for me. And I I see some incredible AI things that I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so inspired by this mood board image that made me think differently. We've always been kind of I don't know, uh referencing other work, and it's just kind of a faster, newer, different way of doing that. So it's it's tough because I see I do see how it taps into creativity, and I also see how it's terrifying and and people don't know what their job is.
SPEAKER_01But it can also be used to speed up really labor like labor-intensive processes, like for example, depth mapping was something like when you're putting confetti falling down in CGI, you have to like the confetti falling here, confetti falling here, and the confetti falling there, all looks different because it's blurry levels and all of a sudden.
SPEAKER_02The lighting and everything is so much easier, isn't it? In AI exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so it can speed that process up. And that I think is the mathematics found that usage. So it's it it's it, you know. I think there's ways that it's used that aren't also artistic and are more technical.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. You want it to enhance as opposed to replace. Um but but also, you know, missing pieces has got a reputation for being at the forefront of new technology, you know, and and Ari Kuchner, have I pronounced his name right? I mean, he he's quite vocal, isn't he, about his interest, um, and he's doing a lot of experimentation in AI. So he's amazing.
SPEAKER_03He's done a number of incredible pieces that have attracted quite a lot of attention and I think they're wonderful use cases.
SPEAKER_02Do you think that's partly why you uh brought into the into the mix to put a pitch on it? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Definitely. I mean, missing pieces was huge. They um the job came to them, Ari was in the conversation.
SPEAKER_01We talked about kind of chatting with Ari, working with Ari, trying to figure out what tools and programs, because that was a huge part, was a conversation between the NFL agency and missing pieces about like what tools do we need to use for this and what tools are we legally allowed to use for this. Right. Oh, it was a whole thing. And so that was and and and Ari knows so much about that.
SPEAKER_03So helpful. I mean, in the end, the thing that's kind of a bummer about the NFL is a lot of the tools we weren't able to use. And so I do think that on a creative level, there were some limitations.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like you know, the float we some of the best tools have copyrighted material in them, and we didn't use those tools. Right. Right, right.
SPEAKER_03It ended up being a little bit listen, it's new technology. We're all learning and growing, it's getting better every day, but um Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But but at the end of the day, it was j you know, it was a it was a really good spot. So how it was put together is sort of slightly irrelevant. It's just that there's so much talk and bars, isn't there? Everybody wants to be the first out there with a you know an AI spot. Sure. But um you do so much sort of great work and and y you know, uh it sort of stands out. It seems to have a very strong point of view in terms of the casting and the look of it. Can you talk a little bit about that? And and maybe also do you have like a team of people that always work with you or do you tend to work with different people depending on the project?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Good question.
SPEAKER_02I mean casting a point of view.
SPEAKER_01Casting like aesthetic of it has been like just a long running thing that we've been slowly discovering. I think we're always drawn to like the colour and the texture and depth of like 1950s Technicolor that like we're almost always using as references. At least internally, a lot of times that clients hate to see that, but there's this like roundness, this texture, this depth that comes from that that I feel like we're always emulating. Um, we sh we don't shoot on film often, but we just like that era of lighting too. And I feel like you like Olivia's a very big believer, and I feel like has kind of converted me to this idea that like not all lighting needs to feel like it is coming from a source of something. And so our lighting, a lot of times it's like we will direct our crew to say, like, it depends the project, but a lot of times we will direct our crew a little bit more theatrically, where it's like you don't necessarily need to put a light because there's a window there, put a light where it looks good, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and where we're trying to draw attention to it comes from this idea we always talk about like what's the difference between like writing from your wrist versus writing from your chest, or viewing from your head versus viewing from your body and your heart. And I think on the light can can highlight emotion rather than uh physics or technicality of where a light actually is sometimes because we want to feel something in an instant when we see pictures coming together.
SPEAKER_01We sometimes can't think because we're tired and we want to feel and so I think that no matter there are several DPs like you know that we've kind of made and and you and use often, but I think that across the board when we direct in that way, it tends to come back in a similar way when we search for the DPs that kind of create that work naturally.
SPEAKER_03We have it, we have a few a handful of regular keys across departments that we go to, but we feel um excited also to work with new talent and just trying to find people who connect with us on a f on a first phone call, first phone call. And our and we love people that feel inspired. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02Yes, of course, yes, yes. And is it important to you to work with diverse talent or yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, absolutely so important. I mean, with you mentioned casting, I know we didn't touch on that. Casting is a huge, huge part of things for us. I mean, you heard about finding the waitress and become together. You know, we're we're very much attracted to energy and we don't have much logic. Um, we will see somebody and be like, oh, they're not self-conscious, that's so beautiful, or oh, they are so funny in the way they carry their body, or their timing is just hilarious. They just seem like so likable and you just like want to hang out with them. Yeah, we're like, they're cool. They are cool, they are cool, they know who they are. It all comes from uh committing to what their presence is. Um and yeah, well, that that tends to be um, we we gravitate towards oddballs, we gravitate towards people like us, uh, people who haven't always been uh, you know, perhaps the commercial face or the usual suspect.
SPEAKER_02Um so do you do you work with a particular casting director or or do you literally go out yourselves? It sounds like it might be quite a long process. I mean, a longer process than doing a casting session and getting a whole load of people into a studio.
SPEAKER_01So do you Yeah, it is when it comes to commercial stuff, we do it pretty traditionally. We'll hire a director and we'll we'll oftentimes like send a lot of people to the casting director where we're like we like bring these people in for sure.
SPEAKER_03Um, like almost always we're like bringing in a lot of it's about collaboration, it's usually 50-50 our polls and their polls, and we we have a couple people we love working with comedy casting directors. Yeah, um Tim Harrington is so funny, and uh RMB casting, but but there's so many great places. It's we do like to go out and scout ourselves, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And especially when it's our feature or like a more narrative piece, we really have never done traditional casting. Like we will do pieces of it, we'll roll, we'll post casting calls, but we like find people on Instagram.
SPEAKER_03We wrote letters to our dream actors and they both said yes. It's like we just know what we want. Although I will say for commercials, it's similar. Like we just did a Dave and Buster's campaign, and I think half of the 10 OCPs were people we had scouted at comedy shows around town, and then the other were names that Ryan brought in that were incredible. And I think um it's really, really, really fun, the casting part.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so do you ever come across situations with clients or creatives where you just have a different opinion and there's a bit of friction there? And and if so, how do you how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do. I mean, I think for us, it depends what the friction is, whether it's um a taste thing or a abilities thing, I think we would handle them differently. Um when it comes to the when if it's somebody where they are just like really loving someone's look, but we're you know hesitant about their skills, we'll always say we'll always say it will be like listen, like we we want to prepare you that if we're on set and there's a really specific thing we need from this person, we're we're a little concerned that they may not be able to give us exactly they do this one thing really well, but if we want a different kind of thing, yeah, just to keep this in mind. And then a lot of times they'll be like, Great, we're committed to that. And then when we're all on set and then that happens, everyone is aware that was gonna happen or could happen. Um, or sometimes it'll be like, okay, you're right, maybe we should go with somebody a little bit more diverse. I think when it comes to like a taste thing, um it's a little bit harder, you know, it's like it's ultimately their call. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like if it's like if it's just they don't like this taste, then okay, like we're gonna make a case, but we'll defer. It's just it's more when there's a when we're putting how someone looks over their innate ability, that's when we speak up. Because it is not about aesthetic when you're casting, it is about a person's essence. Um that is a mistake we see all the time. It's all the time in casting. It's like your people are brought in for how they look. That's not that's a bonus. We love looking at people's looks, but it's also because their energy conveys some sort of cool authenticity, yeah, right or confidence that we're attracted to.
SPEAKER_02So and then when you're on set, um who who who directs the talent? Is that is that you, Carrie, or it's a little it's more Olivia.
SPEAKER_01I think okay. My commercials is more Olivia. A lot of times I'll I'll tell her like a technical thing I need, and then she will a lot of times communicate it.
SPEAKER_03Um I talk to people out externally more. She talks to crew internally more. So yeah, I I'm working with the cast more.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right. And then how do you communicate with the with the agency? Uh big because you're you you have a reputation for being very collaborative. Do you love to collaborate?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, doing it. We're in collaboration and like inherently we're in duo. So it's just easy.
SPEAKER_03It's the only thing we know is we want to work. It's like we're in the cul-de-sac working together, you know. We want, we want, we're making videos again. And so the agency, it's up to them, but we love to be on group text. We love to check in on set, we love to have them stand with us. We it, you know, it's like, how can we feel like we're on the same team and have fun? And those little those little sparks we come up with together when we're riffing on set are are so much fun. The spontaneity.
SPEAKER_01I mean, um Well, and I think ultimately for us, it's like this commercial is not our thesis. Like when we're making a commercial, we're being brought on because there's already been months of um, you know, pitching and planning and refining and getting this piece to where it is now. And we're coming on to kind of like bring that through to the finish line. And ultimately, you know, the client and the agency have are they know what they want and they know what they need, and we're kind of there to help guide them maybe to some things they haven't thought about yet, but then also just bring to fruition what you know they need. And so creative doula.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I'm like, it's just how can we give birth to this thing and how can we we will have strong ideas about oh, this would be so cool, this we should do it, blah blah blah. But we ultimately trust them if they're like, oh well, maybe more this way, because yeah, it is their thing for much longer.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, there's got to be good chemistry, hasn't there? I love that creative doula. I think that's uh that's wonderful. So are you okay letting go with the editorial? I mean, the fact that that Olivia, you're so involved with music, and so many of your projects have music as a sort of the core um in them. Yeah, how how does that work? Or do do agencies very much embrace you know those talents of yours and and let you sort of stay in editorial and and sort of finishing right up to the end?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it depends on the agency. We have found ourselves being invited in a lot, which is our dream. Usually for the first pass. Yeah, like they'll almost always say, We and I think by the time we go through production, we do work, I think, quite in a fun or collaborative way. And people want us often to stay, and we want to stay if we're having fun. So if all parties are having fun, we stay, we edit, we give the passive for it. Yeah, sometimes we'll write on to another job and then you know it's hard. But when we can, especially with comedy, we want to be there. We want to help with timing and pacing. I don't know if we mentioned to you, but Carrie and I both came up editing as well. When Girl Band didn't get picked up to air when we were 24, we started editing music videos and commercial stuff for money. That's how we paid our bills before we got more into short-perm directing. And so we are we also post-produced world tours, we did VFX supervision. So we have a very multitude. Yes. Well, you know, it was more of a need thing than anything. But yeah, as a result, we do have many things we've done and uh we we want to be involved in the editing.
SPEAKER_01Right. I think ultimately it gets to a spot then where the client comes in, there's notes that it's like we kind of take a step back and then we'll make our directors cut from from that. Um sometimes we don't need to.
SPEAKER_03Sometimes it's so collaborative that we land in a place where we're like, this is amazing. And then other times uh we we feel like their end product is amazing, but we still want to make a different amazing version. That's our director's. I mean, that's like right now it's Aven Busters. We're working with an amazing team, an agency that has just been so fun and funny and trusting and collaborative. And uh we just there were so many versions of the cuts that were. Yeah, it's like it's different to choose. There's one for the client, we love it. There's one we're doing a DC that's a little longer, we love it. And we're all texting and DMing and and just kind of having fun with it. And I think the you know, ultimately, if we're having I mean, that's brilliant.
SPEAKER_02It's because chemistry is so important, isn't it? But I think some sometimes with the process, the advertising process, you know, you're you're pushed into doing three bids and talking to three directors, which I personally love because I feel like you've got the script, and then each time you talk to a different director or directing duo, uh they elevate it in some way and they bring so much to the party. So e even if I really want to work with somebody, I I just love that that process. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I I when we last spoke, you had mentioned that sometimes you you are pulled in and you feel a little bit like the sort of the third diverse bidder. Um and I know that you put so so much work into your treatments. Can you talk a little bit about that and and how it makes you feel?
SPEAKER_03I appreciate that question. Yeah, you know, it's it happened more towards the beginning of our careers. I think now we're being called more intentionally, but yeah, in the beginning it was really hard because it was kind of a I think a diversity checkbox situation. And I know that that's well intentioned, but then I think the flip side for agencies to remember is if you don't intend to hire the person and you're only putting them in that pool to sleep well at night, you're actually just wasting someone's time. So you have to you have to really believe and visualize them as your director to then pull them into that pool.
SPEAKER_01Um, and I think also making sure we have the same like back like early in our careers, we would get really upset because we get a pitch in and it was due the next day or something. Because the third person dropped out at that time. And so then it's like really tough because we're working up against getting paid, nobody cares. We can't really win. And so Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you care so much about what you do, don't you? So you probably just feel like you're you're not given the proper opportunity to shine when you're in that sort of situation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's tough. You know, it would be so different if people were paid to bid or to pitch, like let's say there's five grand flat fee for agencies to engage. That doesn't even cover the treatment, but just something honorary to show commitment that would change things. But because it's unpaid and because you are kind of engaging someone to basically put a full week of free labor in, it has to, I would say just being really intentional. And I know a lot of agencies are fantastic about that, and being so careful in who they select, if it feels like the right fit, making sure they can really see a path forward before engaging someone like that.
SPEAKER_02I think that's so important, and and actually just uh to really think about that, five grand or even more every time we're doing a treatment is that's a lot of money for for you know people to invest.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, it's like ten grand. It's it comes really about ten grand per treatment, and that's us working for free, but our team getting paid. Right, right. And then of course our production company they're on is paying for it. They're paying for it, they're on salaries, they don't get paid either, they have their production company income. But um, you know, it's it's a lot of people going out on a limb for uh corporate America basically. Yeah, yeah, which feels a little bit icky at times. So I think just being at the very least being intentional about who's curated and why, and um uh you know, being respectful to not use ideas if you're not if you don't pick a certain director, there's lots of etiquette things and yeah, absolutely absolutely and they do come back around, I think, because as we grow and directors grow, I I we have we talk with director friends, people want to go back and work with agencies who have been trusting and collaborative and respectful. So I think um it's a short-term thing, but it's also like a long-term relationship building.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I'm very glad that you've you've said that because I think it is it's very important for agencies and brands to hear. Um so normally I ask a question and feel free to answer it or not. But is there anything is there any particular challenge that you've faced um in either your personal lives or your um professional life that's made that you feel has made you a stronger person?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think I know I know we were talking about this a little bit ago, but I I think that like the us coming out, like being queer and coming out, I think is something that was so difficult and so hard, but I think it has made us so much stronger and made us more confident and our ability to first of all learn and understand ourselves, but then as a result, learn and understand others has at least for me changed my mind. Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_02And can I ask you what why, and maybe this is too personal, and please don't feel you have to answer it, but but why was it so difficult for you to come out?
SPEAKER_01I think there were multiple things is that one was like we we both grew up in pretty conservative parts of America.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, we knew our families wouldn't like it. We knew we knew our hometowns would think it was weird, and and that sounds so kind of small and like oh you shouldn't care what other people think, but we all do.
SPEAKER_01Right and then you see stuff in the media, like especially right now, that is like so hateful towards you know, the LGBTQ community or getting crosswalks, dumb shit. It's like, oh yeah, why are you here? There's all these subliminal messages that that's unnatural or that that's like wrong, or these things that you know, so we've just grown up with that.
SPEAKER_03And I think like, you know, even neighbors won't talk to us because their religion says lesbians that's you know, like they're crazy in this day and age, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02But um I hope you have no regrets about no it's made us better at everything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you find out who your tribe are, you know. Exactly. Yeah, who wants to be there? Who's your who's your real thing? Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my regret is just not coming out sooner. I wish I had had the media, which brings us back to Ripe why we're making it is like this is the film we needed at 17 for people who just want to see a vibrant, beautiful love story that happens to be two women.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. No, I totally agree. Well, I hope somebody will listen to this podcast, they'll watch the trailer, yeah, and then they'll come to you with lots of money because it deserves to be it deserves to be seen, and and it's such a beautiful film. So thank you. Thanks for watching it. Yeah, no, I and I appreciate I appreciate you coming on the podcast, and uh and I'm glad to see that you're so busy. Um I hope it continues.
SPEAKER_03I know we have been having a great time and so grateful. And um God, it's like part of the reason I'm like, be respectful to your directors, is because we love creating, we're such easy suckers. You send us a board, we want to do it. Like, we're it's so we're so quick to dive in and give us something.
SPEAKER_02Well, your passion and your love for it is just absolutely it's infectious, and uh no, it's it's wonderful. So thank you so much. Thank you. And maybe I'll get to work with you one day. Yes, I hope so.
SPEAKER_03Come on, let's let's go. Let's uh maybe can we go to a private island, maybe the Caribbean?
SPEAKER_02Yes, we could go back to Catalina, Spain, one of my favorite places.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. I mean, second shooter. Um well, thank you so much again. Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's hard, isn't it, for young directors, and and you know, it's so inspiring to hear hear about you. And I know that mentorship is is very important to you as well. So definitely.
SPEAKER_03Um if we can ever help anyone, we get a lot of DMs, we try to respond. We're we're a little ad sometimes we don't, but follow-ups are great. We also are grateful to the agencies that do the same, like 72 and Sunny giving us a shot on NFL was so freaking cool. Oh my gosh, um, Zach, Matt, all those people, Jason, we're just amazing. And I think the more people that are looking out, I know there's all this talk about DEI doesn't matter anymore. It does matter. It totally does, it totally, totally does. Yeah, diversity is just people all being represented the same way. So yeah, let's keep elevating each other and and supporting each other. Yeah, 100%. I'll shut up now.
SPEAKER_02No, 100%. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. Um thanks very much, though. Yeah, talk to you soon. Okay, okay, bye. Bye-bye. Kerry and Olivia, thank you so much. I love the way you commit fully to the tone, the visual language, and to each other as collaborators. There's a real courage in that. From film school beginnings to building a creative partnership that keeps evolving. It's exciting to see where you're headed next. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it or leave a review. It genuinely helps us grow. And until next time, keep standing out and standing strong.